Israel wines & RP points...
No sorries & no worries :-D
Ver mensaje de MaJesusWe have no reason to have the same opinions about everything wine related, nonetheless we all share our love for wine :)
Anyway and regarding your point. In one of my preceding posts in this thread I pointed to the time. I mean, time (many years) are needed to get the tipicity. After the vintners (is it the right name in english for vignerons?) understand how the grape grows in their soils, the climate issues and this kind of things they’ll be able to get the best of the new variety.
Some months ago I read a very good reputed person of a winery in the Priorat that said that right now they understand how Cab. Sauvignon & Merlot express the terroir in Priorat; and right now, after aprox 10 vintages they’re able of give their best with them.
I don’t know I’m explaining properly myself...
Cheers,
Jose
Re: You explain yourself perfectly
Ver mensaje de jose... and I do agree with it, entirely ...
MaJesus
Re: Israel wines & RP points...
Ver mensaje de suikoWell, maybe this is a linguistic problem… when I think about the meaning of “tipicity” in Spanish I should completely agree with Jose… we cannot talk about tipicity when referring to a foreign variety. Probably with enough time a foreign grape could perfectly adapt to its “new” terroir but I my opinion this is far from being tipicity… For instance, one of my favorite syrah is from Alicante, Enrique Mendoza syrah… but instead of the tipicity of this syrah I prefer to talk about the “unique character” of an specific grape in a specific “terroir”…..
Sorry if my explanations are not clear enough…
Re: Israel wines & RP points...No Apologies Necessary
Ver mensaje de Paco HigónWell I think you all express yourselves better in English than I do in Spanish!
I believe you can have ’typicity’ in wines from a grape grown in a different country or region.
Good examples are as mentioned such as Cloudy Bay Sauvignon Blanc.This has the typical ’grassy’ ’cats pee’ ’gooseberry’ nose but clearly is a New World wine and different from wines from the Loire. So far we agree and you can clearly tell it has Sauvignon Blanc characteristics but is not a Loire wine.
I like young Syrah, especially Rhones such as Crozes Hermitages which have a lot of jammy characteristics and ’smoke/tar’ on the nose.I had not encountered that in a Spanish Syrah until I recently tried Malpaso. The Malpaso I think had some characteristics typical of Syrah as grown in the Northern Rhone but more warmth and depth overall perhaps.
Cabernet Sauvignon is a grape which has in my view typical characteristics depending on where it is grown . In Bordeaux(Haut Medoc) it has a classic bramble fruit and vegetal nose sometimes very like the leaves of the blackcurrant plant. In California and some wines from Georgia(former USSR) it expresses a minty characteristic on the nose and palate and from Romania and Australia it has much more blackcurrant on the nose and palate.It also shows gravel and minerals on the palate particularly from both Mas Du Daumas Gassac in the Languedoc of Southern France and Graves in Bordeaux than elsewhere.
Gewurtztraminer from Alsace has that wonderful spice but is essentially a wine for aperitifs or is good with some food ( some like it with Indian cuisine) especially goats cheese. It is not typically a dessert wine and I remain to be convinced that it shows typicity in Israel.....but I think we all agree that too!!!!
To sum up some grapes show some or all of their typical characteristics when grown in a different region or country to that of their origin. Others take on ’new’ characteristics typical of their new regions and their terroir.
I totally agree that Vignerons or wine-growers generally know their terroir best and seek to allow grapes to express themselves against this backround or terroir which ultimately makes each wine different!
Finally on a note for our Spanish contributors a ’vintner’ is a wine merchant rather than a grower but you express your individual opinions very honestly and clearly!!!!!
....Now where does that leave us....perhaps we should organise a ’cata’ to prove all this and let the wines do the talking!!!!!
Riki
Good summary! :)
Ver mensaje de rikiwigleyAnd thanks about the difference between a vintner and a grower 8^)
Cheers,
Jose
Well Jose.
Ver mensaje de joseMy basic point is that debating typicity is a valid theoretical exercise.
But when all is said and done it’s what’s in the glass that counts.
There are wines with ’typicity’ that are awful and wines without ’typicity’ that are wonderful.
So all I was saying is does it matter ?
Give me quality over typicity.
And for the record I have no intention of seeking out a Gewurtz from Israel. ;-)
I fully agree with you.
Ver mensaje de RayQI do prefer quality over tipicity but I’ve to admit that with this sentence we got as a result the current wine ’globalifornikation’, with the same varietals and methods used in every corner of the globe.
As consumers who pay for every glass of wine we drink I think we would want to have quality wines full of tipicity (or at least as much tipicity as possible)... and if they have a good price I’d jump up and down trhough the room as a mad duck! ;)))
Cheers,
Jose
Re: Unfair? Not really...or not enough! ;))
Ver mensaje de joseYears growing that variety, OK, I agree with that. But for that reason I would say that a Barossa Shiraz or an Eden Valley Riesling can, and do, definitely have typicity. In fact most of the vines in these areas are considerably older than those in their native lands!