Too roasted and high in alcohol...

I have not read the Brook book, Juan.

Unlike the previous text that you provided, your statement that Spanish wine is like Bordeaux is certainly suitably controversial for a wine board.

As usual, David (whose charm, wit and wisdom I have had plenty of chances to enjoy on a private e-mail wine forum in which we both participate) strikes a very judicious tone and brings out the contradictions in the venerable Mr. Boradbent’s position much better than I ever would. I get too hot about certain things, one of them being silly nationalisms and the ";T.S. Eliot-inspired headgear"; (believe me, wrote enough papers on Eliot the protofascist, the churchman, the blinded, stubborn old man, not to know what such hats are about...).

I would dare to differ with Schildknecht on that ";Small glass of the high-test stuff."; I beleive in drinking, and believe that all dinners are best when well-lubricated. But that’s just me.

I believe the most interesting of David’s remarks are the ones about the meaninglessness of speaking in terms of ";traditional Bordeaux."; indeed, traditions in Bordeaux are short lived. And sometimes nature intervenes to shatter them (as in the cases of oidium and phylloxera). We can speak of liking more ";traditional"; wines, but must qualifay that the ";tradition"; to which we refer only dates back to the early-twentieth century in the best of cases, or later in the worst. And hey, at some points Bordeaux has been guilty of certain infamies. I do recall hearing from some of my older relatives about lots of wine bought from Bordeauxnegociants that bore the labels of certain chateaux, but htat inside the bottles only carried a small amount, if any, of the wine from the property in question. The negociants of old were known for their trickery, and the additions of fun things like Algerian rotgut or anything heady and strong from Spain when a chateaux production just wasn’t ";up to speed.";

Funny you should say so much Spanish wine is like Bordeaux lately... You mean it’s like Pavie, right? :-) Oh, well, of course, the ancestors of some of my dear freinds in Rioja did have claret as a model when, in the nineteenth century, they began to market their wines seriously. So in Spain perhaps the model has always been Bordeaux of one kind or another.

I ordered that ";Noble Rot"; Walt mentions. Looked interesting from the blurbs. Shall comment once I reach it on the enormous pile at my bedside in NYC.

M.

The one of Bdx wines and Spanish top wines... Amazing...

Cheers,

Jose

The Brook’s book is quite absorbing and could be interesting to compare it with the new Bordeaux book you comment.

Regarding my statement what I said, in my poor English, is that ";I think Bordeaux wines are more similar to many top Spanish wines than the wines from the other two regions mentioned (Burgundy and Piemonte)";

I use the adjective ";similar"; in the sense of the Dictionary: looking or being almost, but not exactly, the same.

I mean wines from Ribera del Duero or modern Riojas, Castilla-La Mancha, Priorats, etc. have a style (color, structure, alcohol, etc.) that resemble much more the modern wines from Bordeaux than the wines from Burgundy and Piemonte. Sometimes even include the same grapes (cabernet sauvignon, merlot, petit verdot), although I think this is secondary (see https://www.verema.com/en/forum/message.asp?message=1038). An exception could be Classical Riojas which I believe are more similar to classical red Burgundy (even the shape of the glass to get more enjoyment from them is the same).

In other words, when I am looking for buying wines from outside Spain I mostly look for whites from cold climates, Champagne and reds from Burgundy and Piemonte. I think the style of these later wines is more different from the Spanish reds. Do you think that the top modern Spanish wines are more like red Burgundies than Bordeaux?

I guess you got enough punishment for your ambiguity already. I caught your point the first time anyway ;^)
A few of the most refined among the best (Pisón easily comes to mind) are constantly being compared to Burgundy in terms of praise such as finesse and elegance (vs power which seems to be a Bordelais prerrogative). Now my turn to court ambiguity... :^P

...Would only be like truly horrible Burgundy and Bordeaux, is what i say. Of course, the making of undrinkable abominations is a prerrogative of the whole world these days, not just some guys in Priorat, Rioja, Beaune or Saint-Emilion.

M.

Manuel, I understand ";modern"; as the dictionary: Characteristic or expressive of recent times or the present; contemporary or up-to-date.

I can’t see how this may equate with unbalanced or ";undrinkable abominations"; as you imply. There are fine modern style Spanish wines as there is ’modern’ Latour in the 2000 vintage.

I believe the key dichotomy is not classic versus modern wine but balanced versus unbalanced wines. And in Spanish sunny regions like Priorat or Ribera del Duero you can get balanced and profound wines in a modern style.

Of course I can agree with you that a classic Rioja often is reminiscent of Burgundy, and a nice Ribera del Duero often has Bordeaux notes. I do think, however, that many Francophiles would scoff at this proposition. It is in that respect that I believe that your comparison would likely generate some controversy.

I liked Mr. Dressner’s comments that you quoted, and I would like at some point to discuss this in far more detail as it relates to Tempranillo. In certain respects this grape is starting to become a little bit of a chameleon. Obviously there are some regional differences in the variety (e.g., Rioja Tempranillo versus Tinto Fino, etc.), but there are some wines that are labeled 100% Tempranillo that have some very different tastes and smells. (I think you know about my personal - but unpopular - theory about the use of undisclosed grapes, particularly Syrah, but that may be only part of the explanation.)