Could we criticize critics???

42 respuestas
    #17
    MCamblor
    en respuesta a WaltZalenski

    Re: Let’s see... (Conclusion)

    Ver mensaje de WaltZalenski

    On the subject of flames, trolls, etc, let’s put it this way: Mr. Barrera has a rare gift... I still recall an episode in which I posted a comment about a 2003 Do Ferreiro Albariño. I considered that effort vastly inferior to the lovely, sharply-focused, intensely mineral 2002. I mentioned I detected a not-unpleasant, yet somewhat obtrusive element reminiscent of urine (an aroma of urea often being characteristic in certain overripe white wines). The man flew off the handle, claiming I had not only insulted Galicia, but htat I was an enemy of the entirety of Spain.

    Just things that go on in this wonderful web...

    On Parker’s ";no bad reviews"; policy: I believe it casts a shadow on the rest of his reviews. My grandfather was a constant utterer of the maxim ";If you have nothing positive to say, say nothing";. I, for my part, believe that criticism (even the harshest) can be constructive given the right context and the right wording. If one is a reviewer of a category of consumer products and only chooses to present the ";good"; examples to the public, without giving fair warning about unsatisfactory instances, one runs the risk of eleciting suspicion that one is merely a marketing tool. Every wine should get a shot at being reviewed in print. And every wine should accept the likelihood of getting a slapping if it’s not up to snuff.

    I also agree on the matter of many people’s knee-jerk reactions to Parker and Parker’s organization (and to the Wine Spectator and other opinion-makers). This agreement is especially important because in the past I have been guilty of such reactions, stupidly enough. I dismissed some things without looking at them as deeply as I should have. It’s something of which I’m not proud. Now, I try to examine much more thoroughly before uttering a judgment that smacks even remotely of finality. And, like I said, even though one may not share many tastes with someone, there’s a chance that if one look’s hard enough, one will find common ground.

    On your question about where the great artisanal wines from Spain may have been 20 years ago: Well, definitions of artisanal have evolved over the past twenty years. I will agree that now there are a great many wines being made in Spain htat are perfectly correct iwthin a certain idiom. I would attribute ";greatness"; to none, though. The reason for this is that th vast majority of producers that hve merged in various regions of Spain over the past 20 years are still not proven quantities. Too many of them have been doing on-the-job training at the expense of the consumer. And the wines, let’s face it, don’t have a real track record to speak of.

    But twenty years ago you had the great houses of Rioja making some truly inspired wine (tried ’85 La Rioja alta ’890’ lately? Or the fantastic Continos of the early ’80s? Or the truly magnificent Imperial ’81? The list is long; regardless of the horrid way in which some ";authorities"; have misled the public, not everyone was making dirty, ansty, :Carrilero"; Riojas twenty years ago). Ditto for the likes fo Chivite in Navarra. And there were producers doing some healthy things in Penedès (Jean Leon comes to mind, also Barbier and Torres). In Toro you hd (and still have) the Fariña, making wines that are very true and charming in their own way. RIbera del Duero had, apart from Vega Sicilia, the first very fine commercial efforts of Alejandro Fernández and Teófilo Reyes at Pesquera. True, they were the prpulsors of the ";new wave"; in the Duero, but they were, in fact, making very fine wine in the early eighties. And hey, the father of Verema’s own Laureano Serres was making some fantastic ";rancios"; around Terra Alta, let’s not forget. His 1975 one from Garnacha is da bomb...:-)

    I do this quick count of producers (there were many more who were doing things very properly in the ’70s and ’80s) because

    #19
    MCamblor
    en respuesta a WaltZalenski

    I Am Not.

    Ver mensaje de WaltZalenski

    Never did I even imply such a thing. A good amount of the great producers of twenty, fifty, or a hundred years ago, are still around and stil make outstanding wine. We have López de Heredia. We have Muga. We have Bodegas Riojanas, La Rioja Alta, Chivite, Fariña, Vega Sicilia, the fine Sherry houses in Andalusia...

    Alas, among some camps there seems to be a view of Spain as an enological wasteland twenty or thirty years ago that is simply incorrect. There were, I will repeat endlessly, some truly amazing wines being produced at that time in Spain. There was also a lot of impotable crap. Major steps have been taken in the past couple of decades in terms of standardizing quality. We’ve also seen the emergence of a whole bunch of pretenders to the status of ";Great Spanish Wine";. All of this must be seen in its proper context and we should not let our view be fogged by hype or opinions emitted by particulars who are sometimes riddled with conflicts of interest.

    Having said this, perhaps some of the great houses of the past may not be in risk of disappearing, but the style of certain wines has changed enough for me ot worry. I’m thinking of Vña Real, for example...

    Best,

    Manuel

    #20
    JoanF
    en respuesta a WaltZalenski

    I have taken....

    Ver mensaje de WaltZalenski

    ... a look on the Parker’s forum (I might be doomed :^D), and find all the comments nonsense... even Mark Squires closed the topic with this comment ";Really--Pedro, I sympathize with your predicament but discussing other boards’ policies is beyond the scope of this one.";...

    Needless to say, the few comments I read on this thread (verema) are by far much more interesting and completing for me (in the wine sense but not only) than the topics on the other forum.

    My problem is my English, its skill is not high enough, thus I cannot follow all the comments and meanings you’re posting. Anyway, I enjoy to read you and sometimes I don’t dare to place my comments.

    Please keep as you are.

    Regards.

    Joan

    PD: By the way, Manuel, Walt (I know you like chess), can I see you around www.chess21.com?

    #21
    rayol
    en respuesta a WaltZalenski

    Re: civilised debate !

    Ver mensaje de WaltZalenski

    This thread is perfect !
    Opinions are given but no insults traded.
    I’m RayQ on other sites (squires,WLDG,Wine-pages) unfortunately computer glitches on this forum forced a change (and being a bit of a luddite !!)

    I don’t like Tondonia or Bosconia either but I CAN’T wait for Mcamblor’s part 3 !
    Variety is the spice of life. I appreciate his insight but reserve the right to disagree with it because it’s an honestly held position (blame my tasatebuds !)
    When Walt posts on any of these fora I open the thread because I know he knows his onions ! But I might not agree with all of them. And I appreciate all the feedback the people here give me to my queries.
    Humility is a powerful thing. I have many reasons to be humble !! I cannot (to my great regret) post detailed tasting notes but I have knowledge of ,and experience of, a great many wines. I love grape juice. All of you do too. We share a common interest. But above all we should show respect towards each other. And we can do this while all the time celebrating our differences.

    Yes Mr. (why don’t we use these two letters more often ?) Parker has a lot of influence.
    But only because lots of people slavishly chase points (any merchant will tell you that putting his scores on helps shift stock).. Yes he should criticise more and give greater prominence to quality/price ratio and flag up blatant profiteering.
    Yes more producers ape a style that will earn more points BUT as more people get into wine and we become more descriminating we will seek out other styles and if there is a market for these wines they will be produced whether Parker (Mr !) likes them or not.

    As someone has already quoted Roland Barthes it’s worth remembering he was killed by a bus so should Mr Parker one day be struck down by one or leave this world in a more traditional fashion it’s safe to say wine production will not necessarially cease !

    I wish you all a good fin de semana.
    I’m off for a vaso of vino tinto.

    saludo

    Ray

    #22
    MCamblor
    en respuesta a WaltZalenski

    If I Can Possibly Manage the Time

    Ver mensaje de WaltZalenski

    It seems that between work, wine fora, entertaining and a bit of muswc-making here and there, I don’t have enough spare time to even think about chess, let alone play and discuss it. Horrendous. isn’t it?

    The thread on Erobertparker was pointed out to me a few days ago. I saw it with amusement, as it regards myself. But I am a bit concerned about the difamation fo Verema as an ";anti-Robert Parker site,"; something it demonstrably is not. Mr. Barrera stepped over the line there, attempting to sully the prestige of a very respectable company.

    Of ocurse I’ll keep up being me and writing what I write. I’m glad you enjoy it and can see it for what it is. And I promise you, each day I will try to get closer to that goal I have so often mentioned, to talk less about personalities and more about wine.

    Best,

    Manuel

    #23
    MCamblor
    en respuesta a rayol

    Not a Bus...

    Ver mensaje de rayol

    Barthes was actually killed, according to some accounts, by a milk truck, in others, by an ice cream truck. he was walking out of the Elysée Palace, having just had lunch with the president as part of some sort of event.

    Bravo on the rest of your message. Indeed, to talk in a measured voice is key. And we do all have a general point in common, the love of wine.

    You don’t like Tondonia or Bosconia? Here’s hoping one of these days a glass (or two) of the 1920 or 1947 Bosconia change your mind. If not, well, there’s plenty of other stuff to drink. You like Musigny? That would be some nice, more specific common ground,and I know several producers who do it exceedingly well...:-)

    Best,

    Manuel

    #24
    rayol
    en respuesta a MCamblor

    Re: Not a Bus...

    Ver mensaje de MCamblor

    Manuel,
    a pleasure to converse with you.
    I have to speak to my university media studies professor about the bus ! sloppy research !
    Hurry up with part 3 of that rioja tour !
    The world would be poorer without Tondonia etc One doesn’t need to like them to appreciate that fact. I like my friends to disagree with me. A dinner party full of people with the same points of view is the most boring kind. Vive la differance !
    I’m sure if we ever meet up we could find something to share.

    sorry can’t get the image of Robert Parker being run over by a MILK float out of my mind !

    Ray

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