What do we look for in a 2nd wine?
What do we look for in a 2nd wine?
Ver mensaje de joseHi all,
so... what do we look for in a second wine? Do we look for the reminiscence of the first (and great) wine? An ";almost-first-wine"; for less than a half of the price of the first one? or nothing at all?
Cheers,
Jose
Re: What do we look for in a 2nd wine?
Ver mensaje de joseI think the concept of ";second wine"; is very Bordelaise and quite recent (20th century). A good marketing idea in an ever increasing competitive environment (that crucial TNs and ratings from critics). Theoretically you can get in a second wine the character of the first wine, but with greater approachability (shorter-term drinking) and directness.
In the Haut-Brion website they write about its second wine (Bahans Haut-Brion): ";The second wine is not grown on specific parcels. It is grown on the same land as the First Growth. Thus it has the same origin, the same character, and the same originality as the First Growth. The difference between the two is that the First Growth is the product of the ultimate search for excellence, while the second wine does not attain the same complexity and force. The second wine is the junior model of the First Growth.
Therefore, though a Second Wine does lack its own identity or geographic position, it nevertheless shares the identity and the history of the First Growth.";
In Spain this marketing idea is exploted by a growing number of wineries. The clearer case is Pingus and its Flor de Pingus. Valbuena has a long history... And Eneas from Sara Perez is an interesting case but now have a trademark conflict with Muga and I don’t know if this name will survive for the long term...
Re: What do we look for in a 2nd wine?
Ver mensaje de Juan SuchLet’s see... I look for a 1st approach to the philosophy of the winery and also to their ";terroir"; maybe also I’d like to see what are they experimenting (to pay for an ";unsuccessful"; experiment is less ";painful"; with a cheaper wine).
Cheers!
Re: What do we look for in a 2nd wine?
Ver mensaje de joseI just approach a ";second"; wine as a completely different wine and assess it on its own merits. For example, you mentioned Perez’s Eneas: I actually like this a little better than Venus. If I am not very excited by a wine (for example 2000 Les Terrasses), I certainly don’t find any extra psychic value in the wine’s association with great winemaker or a great wine.
Of course, Spain has a long tradition of designations related to the winemaking process (gran reserva / reserva / crianza / joven / etc.). In some ways, the lesser aged and earlier released wines can be said to be ";second"; wines, but I think that term generally has come to mean something different. For this reason, I consider Alion more of a second wine than Valbuena, for example. But some may argue that Alion is not a second wine at all because it does not come from the same estate as Vega Sicilia.
Price also seems to be a factor. Can something as expensive as Valbuena or La Cueva del Contador be a second wine? The question gets confusing for other reasons too. If a winemaker starts to make a limited-production special cuvee, does the basic wine therefore become a ";second?"; (Incidentally, what is the general expression in Spanish for a special cuvee?)
Perhaps my favorite ";second"; wine of moment -- or what I consider to be a second wine -- is the 2001 Martinet Bru.
Re: What do we look for in a 2nd wine?
Ver mensaje de WaltZalenskiI agree with you Walt. If you are expecting a ";1st wine-like";, you probably will be disappointed.
With 2nd wines I’m only looking for good QPR wines.
Re: What do we look for in a 2nd wine?
Ver mensaje de joseWell, there is more than one thing about this point but we all agree generally speaking: the second wine is to take an approach to the first wine ";myth"; but careing about price. I’m not sure if it works that way sometimes. What Walt says about ";reservas"; as the first wines etc, works that way indeed (we’ve seen it very recently in the virtual tasting of Torresilo, which was compared more than once with the ";crianza"; Cillar de Silos, exactly in that terms of ";the first"; and ";the second";). Walt is right again when asks if ";la cueva del contador"; may be considered as a second wine. This (in my opinion) is more clear in the case of Cirsión, Roda I and Roda II... the first, the second and the third? I think not, but its clear that de Roda I & II have been born that way.
Question of marketing, yes I think. I mean it’s the way to sell a silver metal wine while amortizating the effort made to make the gold metal one.
And what about the (for me) odd wave of...
Ver mensaje de Norje...Promoting/depromoting wine... For example Numanthia/Thermanthia. A year ago N. was the first wine, now is the second... or maybe it’s so confusing for me, but I see them as the first and second. And ditto with Corullon of A. Palacios...
Cheers,
Jose
Re: And what about the (for me) odd wave of...
Ver mensaje de joseLets give them the oportunity to say so, wide clear in the Roda I & II.
The rest is mixed up confused marketing points. I much prefer the french way to put it down ";petit..."; they tell how to get closer to the first one without having your bank rememberig you didn`t pay your loans ;*)